GTAStunting
GTA Series => Grand Theft Auto - Vice City => VC Chat & Support => Topic started by: AllBeast on January 13, 2023, 02:40:33 AM
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hello everyone, recently going to gtasdb, I saw that my solos were placed in the modded section, this "made me very happy." Now I have a question, when and who decided that the use of savestates is modding? was there any vote? or just some shithead said that this is modding, and his obedient dogs ran after him to repeat, it's just ridiculous
you can read on the internet, two examples from real life, for example about the skier Pauli Siitonen, and also about the athlete Dick Fosbury, they both used their methods in competitions to win, and no one took away medals from them, in the first case there was a division into types , and in the second, everyone began to use his method, but most importantly, no one took away medals from anyone
why am I doing this, even if there is a vote and my method recognizes modding by the total number of votes, my videos should still be considered unmodded, because when I released them there were no rules regarding savestate
honestly, it hurts me that I spent a lot of time and effort to make these solos, and now they are called modded, at least this is wrong
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Mixed thoughts about this
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Get over it.
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Get over it.
haha okay, but then we should be friends again
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I regret giving you that chance in the first place.
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I wouldn't classify save states as modding per se (at least when they're used transparently like in SIASIN), but I do think they should be separated into a different category from normal videos. The simple solution on GTASDB would be to list them into a new "Save States" or "TAS" category, then I guess everyone would be happy :).
UPDATE: I'm writing this a day later just to clarify that I do consider save states to be modding when they're used to fool people, to make them believe that stunts were landed without them. The term "modding" is semantically flawed though, these discussions should really be about whether something is legitimate or illegitimate. Virtual machines technically don't mod the game, they simply allow the VM's state to be saved and reloaded, but nonetheless, they do allow people to cheat by destroying the standard real-time conventions of stunting. That's why I don't enjoy watching save stated stunts, and generally consider them illegitimate - SIASIN is a little different because Jason mentioned he used them in the both the video and the title, making it completely transparent without hiding anything. That's the way speedrunning communities have handled it for decades, I suggest we do the same :jajaja:.
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I wouldn't classify save states as modding per se (at least when they're used transparently like in SIASIN), but I do think they should be separated into a different category from normal videos. The simple solution on GTASDB would be to list them into a new "Save States" or "TAS" category, then I guess everyone would be happy :).
Simple as :jajaja:
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I wouldn't classify save states as modding per se (at least when they're used transparently like in SIASIN), but I do think they should be separated into a different category from normal videos. The simple solution on GTASDB would be to list them into a new "Save States" or "TAS" category, then I guess everyone would be happy :).
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Remove the " modded " tag on AllBeast videos now! He said it clearly - there was no rule against his method back in then so it's wrong.
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I wouldn't classify save states as modding per se (at least when they're used transparently like in SIASIN), but I do think they should be separated into a different category from normal videos. The simple solution on GTASDB would be to list them into a new "Save States" or "TAS" category, then I guess everyone would be happy :).
yeah this is fair
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I wouldn't classify save states as modding per se (at least when they're used transparently like in SIASIN), but I do think they should be separated into a different category from normal videos. The simple solution on GTASDB would be to list them into a new "Save States" or "TAS" category, then I guess everyone would be happy :).
i second this
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gtastunting is dead, find a new hobby or a new game.
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modded tag for an unmodded video - thats a good way to kill the community even more :|
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I tagged them as modded along with SIASIN as we currently don't have a tag for savestate stunting. It was only for categorization purposes, a placeholder so to speak. Then again, I could just have settled with "Savestate stunting" in the description so it was a bad decision by me. Sorry about that, I've removed them.
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modded tag for an unmodded video - thats a good way to kill the community even more :|
False.
A good way to kill the community is to keep up this masquerade of the savestates method being legitimate. AllBeast said it himself before even releasing the first video, "Everybody will think it's modding." And he was right!
It can't be compared to clean, real time stunting, so it cannot be considered unmodded, correct?
If we were to talk about the community dying, we should probably look at how much activity the GTAS discord has seen since the "AllBeast bum buddies" took their leave. Everybody is sharing spots, chatting about old videos and sharing bike skins, posting memes, sharing excitement for the upcoming collab, we're all having a great time. Anybody's observation would be that the likes of AllBeast and co just have no place at GTAS anymore. The savestate method has very little to do with any of it.
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modded tag for an unmodded video - thats a good way to kill the community even more :|
False.
A good way to kill the community is to keep up this masquerade of the savestates method being legitimate. AllBeast said it himself before even releasing the first video, "Everybody will think it's modding." And he was right!
It can't be compared to clean, real time stunting, so it cannot be considered unmodded, correct?
If we were to talk about the community dying, we should probably look at how much activity the GTAS discord has seen since the "AllBeast bum buddies" took their leave. Everybody is sharing spots, chatting about old videos and sharing bike skins, posting memes, sharing excitement for the upcoming collab, we're all having a great time. Anybody's observation would be that the likes of AllBeast and co just have no place at GTAS anymore. The savestate method has very little to do with any of it.
I still dont understand why you began to hate me again, as it was in 2007-2008, even if I troll people, it doesnt mean anything about what kind of person I am, and I dont do stupid trolling, but I try at least be a little inventive if you notice it of course
your attempts to catch me doing real modding are very funny and I laughed at them because you were wrong, if you were right, I would not mock you
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and I dont do stupid trolling,
Your current forum signature would show otherwise.
I know what kind of person you are. The kind where you truly believe everything you do is moral and well minded, and will keep telling youself the same things while shutting out what everybody else says. But it isn't your fault, you were just lacking right from the very beginning.
Remember the part where I said you would have tears running down your face? Well, how do the tears taste?
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and I dont do stupid trolling,
Your current forum signature would show otherwise.
This is not trolling, but the truth, isnt it?
Remember the part where I said you would have tears running down your face? Well, how do the tears taste?
I dont remember this sorry, can you remind me?
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every stunt video is modded since "main.scm" is modified. messing with internal game files is modding i guess
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Modded or not, I really enjoyed the solo or AllBeast and followed by SIASIN which was a creative way to show how the savestates work to everyone .
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How did anyone not consider it modding?
It's not possible to open vanilla sa and do the stunts you did. You need savestates, a seperate tool from vanilla sa to do the spots you did. A modification. A mod.
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Dannye's is a mod aswell
Lots of people use cleo mods aswell
Thats why its a "weird" case
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How did anyone not consider it modding?
It's not possible to open vanilla sa and do the stunts you did. You need savestates, a seperate tool from vanilla sa to do the spots you did. A modification. A mod.
savestates allow you to do only possible stunts, but save time
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every stunt video is modded since "main.scm" is modified. messing with internal game files is modding i guess
Correct. Which is why the term "modding" has never been used to describe exclusely stunts which have been influenced by changing game files.
Instead, it refers to basically anything that is 'cheating'. Trainers, handling, cheat engine, collision editing, now VM.
How did anyone not consider it modding?
It's not possible to open vanilla sa and do the stunts you did. You need savestates, a seperate tool from vanilla sa to do the spots you did. A modification. A mod.
savestates allow you to do only possible stunts, but save time
You can literally just change handling to give you optimal runups every attempt. So long as the stunt is possible naturally, it's just a 'time saver'.
Braindead argument.
In any case these idiots don't have any place here anymore. Banned from the discord, and from what I understand it's actually active with good discussion in their abscence. Now they're falling back to the forums to spam their nonsense. Time to get rid and move on.
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every stunt video is modded since "main.scm" is modified. messing with internal game files is modding i guess
Correct. Which is why the term "modding" has never been used to describe exclusely stunts which have been influenced by changing game files.
Instead, it refers to basically anything that is 'cheating'. Trainers, handling, cheat engine, collision editing, now VM.
How did anyone not consider it modding?
It's not possible to open vanilla sa and do the stunts you did. You need savestates, a seperate tool from vanilla sa to do the spots you did. A modification. A mod.
savestates allow you to do only possible stunts, but save time
You can literally just change handling to give you optimal runups every attempt. So long as the stunt is possible naturally, it's just a 'time saver'.
Braindead argument.
In any case these idiots don't have any place here anymore. Banned from the discord, and from what I understand it's actually active with good discussion in their abscence. Now they're falling back to the forums to spam their nonsense. Time to get rid and move on.
i only see one idiot here and this is you, if you dont know what modding is, then shut the fuck up, and give chance other people to talk
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every stunt video is modded since "main.scm" is modified. messing with internal game files is modding i guess
Correct. Which is why the term "modding" has never been used to describe exclusely stunts which have been influenced by changing game files.
Instead, it refers to basically anything that is 'cheating'. Trainers, handling, cheat engine, collision editing, now VM.
How did anyone not consider it modding?
It's not possible to open vanilla sa and do the stunts you did. You need savestates, a seperate tool from vanilla sa to do the spots you did. A modification. A mod.
savestates allow you to do only possible stunts, but save time
You can literally just change handling to give you optimal runups every attempt. So long as the stunt is possible naturally, it's just a 'time saver'.
Braindead argument.
In any case these idiots don't have any place here anymore. Banned from the discord, and from what I understand it's actually active with good discussion in their abscence. Now they're falling back to the forums to spam their nonsense. Time to get rid and move on.
i only see one idiot here and this is you, if you dont know what modding is, then shut the fuck up, and give chance other people to talk
dont be rude
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Its because people have different deffinition of modding
But I'll share my thoughts
Lets look at the deffinition of modding
Modding means modifying files/game
BUT dannye's is a mod aswell, but it doesnt affect physics, neither does VM.
VM is rather a "cheat" than modding
I believe the data base shouldnt just add filters based on whats popular but rather on everything that gets released.
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hello everyone, recently going to gtasdb, I saw that my solos were placed in the modded section, this "made me very happy." Now I have a question, when and who decided that the use of savestates is modding? was there any vote? or just some shithead said that this is modding, and his obedient dogs ran after him to repeat, it's just ridiculous
you can read on the internet, two examples from real life, for example about the skier Pauli Siitonen, and also about the athlete Dick Fosbury, they both used their methods in competitions to win, and no one took away medals from them, in the first case there was a division into types , and in the second, everyone began to use his method, but most importantly, no one took away medals from anyone
why am I doing this, even if there is a vote and my method recognizes modding by the total number of votes, my videos should still be considered unmodded, because when I released them there were no rules regarding savestate
honestly, it hurts me that I spent a lot of time and effort to make these solos, and now they are called modded, at least this is wrong
Kinda hard to have some rule in place relating to save states years ago when it was not considered to be a possibility at that time. It is definitely misleading to perform stunts using save states IMO. Is there room for TAS stunting? Absolutely. Is it unmodded? Absolutely not.
'when I released them there were no rules regarding savestate' - in the 1800s it was legal to own slaves in many places throughout the world, didn't mean it was morally right. I think you know yourself you were misleading people with what you were doing but still stormed ahead with it regardless.
I am rather enjoying your suffering, though, so please leave this unlocked, staff. Thanks.
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Its because people have different deffinition of modding
But I'll share my thoughts
Lets look at the deffinition of modding
Modding means modifying files/game
BUT dannye's is a mod aswell, but it doesnt affect physics, neither does VM.
VM is rather a "cheat" than modding
I believe the data base shouldnt just add filters based on whats popular but rather on everything that gets released.
Brilliant let's have a 'Cheated' section as well as a 'Modded' section. Because that distinction obviously matters a lot.
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With savestates you're basically glueing your stunt together out of different bits that happened at completely different times. It's the same thing as splicing two replays together to make it seem like you landed a stunt when you didn't. Completely the same thing. There's a clear definition on what modded actually means.
A stunt is modded when there is any type of unnatural intereference between the start of the runup and the landing which can't be recreated in the vanilla game. (That's why anyone who says "Oh well dannye's script is a mod so we are all modders hehe" is a donkey, look at you you little donkey)
This includes changes to the physics AAND do you know what is also part of "physics"? think real hard you little shit.. TIME AND FUCKING SPACE. You're aren't allowed to alter time and space. Slowitdown is modding for a reason, you're altering the physics because you're altering fucking time.
Savestate stunts are unimpressive and modded. You're using a time machine. Time machines aren't legal!
I don't want to see your big air shit ass finisher where the landing happened three years after the runup was made.
A clean stunt is landed in real-time you little bitch!
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"cheated" maybe no
but I think there should be more 'diversity' in catergories rather than
Unmodded & modded
(yes i know about themed or whatever but u get the point also I havent been in gtas for very long so im just saying/telling what I think dont take it too seriously)
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Categories on categories, they are from the same stick , but from another tree
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'when I released them there were no rules regarding savestate' - in the 1800s it was legal to own slaves in many places throughout the world, didn't mean it was morally right. I think you know yourself you were misleading people with what you were doing but still stormed ahead with it regardless.
I am rather enjoying your suffering, though, so please leave this unlocked, staff. Thanks.
1) I dont think that I misled anyone, otherwise I would have hidden it to the last, and made simpler stunts
but it was funny to me to read the comments that the stunts are shit, anyone will repeat them, I laughed at this, really
2) oh my little Scottish sadist, didn't they tell you not to tell everyone about your secret desires?
With savestates you're basically glueing your stunt together out of different bits that happened at completely different times. It's the same thing as splicing two replays together to make it seem like you landed a stunt when you didn't. Completely the same thing. There's a clear definition on what modded actually means.
A stunt is modded when there is any type of unnatural intereference between the start of the runup and the landing which can't be recreated in the vanilla game. (That's why anyone who says "Oh well dannye's script is a mod so we are all modders hehe" is a donkey, look at you you little donkey)
This includes changes to the physics AAND do you know what is also part of "physics"? think real hard you little shit.. TIME AND FUCKING SPACE. You're aren't allowed to alter time and space. Slowitdown is modding for a reason, you're altering the physics because you're altering fucking time.
Savestate stunts are unimpressive and modded. You're using a time machine. Time machines aren't legal!
A clean stunt is landed in real-time you little bitch!
who the fuck are you to open your mouth when no one asks?
the game is default, I'm not a modder, and even my stunts without a mod did not impress people, they considered them easy, and this is the whole paradox, after everyone realized that I had done the impossible, they began to accuse me of modding, and before that my stunts were shit, two-faced dogs
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The technique of save states itself is very interesting as it opens up a whole new perspective to stunting. Apart from it spreading doubt towards any new video release.
Maybe AI art is a metaphor. Artists try to stop AI generated art, in fear of losing their profession. But it can't be stopped. Over time people will get used to it and implement it in their workflows. There will always be "real" artists, but they will have to prove that their work is AI free.
Same applies here. If anyone wants to prove their stunts are save state free, they have to provide proof they are doing it the old way. But progress can't be stopped.
Save states brought up new discussion, new possibilities and keeps the scene active in one way or another. Who knows where this is going to lead. Either stunting dies because of this, or it evolves in new kind of ways that could be interesting. I hope it will be the second option.
The bad thing was how save states were introduced. If you were honest about it from the beginning, people probably would have reacted differently.
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And again we don't see any reasonable counter argument to "space and time are included within physics". We just see incoherent squealing about "I'M NOT MODDER", "ME NUMBER ONE". Nor will any of his sycophants offer any reasonable counter, just more of the same "HE'S THE BEST, BETTER THAN BARNEY!!!". No surprise these are the last remaining DSS dregs or overinvested randoms that edited his videos.
Save states brought up new discussion, new possibilities and keeps the scene active in one way or another. Who knows where this is going to lead. Either stunting dies because of this, or it evolves in new kind of ways that could be interesting. I hope it will be the second option.
The bad thing was how save states were introduced. If you were honest about it from the beginning, people probably would have reacted differently.
There's no progress here. The overwhelming majority don't want to use VM for a variety of reasons. Not least because it robs the soul of stunting, rendering it down to a joyless zero-sum game where anyone can land anything within the bounds of possibility. And furthermore because it's so crushingly tedious having to deal with slow VM save/reloads, pause/unpause and so on.
Even if you argue that "it could be used to prove possibility". Yeah, no, that's easily done with tools and knowledge we've had for more or less two decades. Want to find out if big air thing is possible? Find the max potential runup speed, mod the handling to give you that speed 100% of the time. Throw a few hours at it. Functionally the exact same as VMing a runup and recycling it for a few hours - in fact doing this without VM will be way more time efficient.
Want to know how to execute some grind combo? Segment it and admin console speed binds to execute parts in isolation. Then it's relatively straightforward to work out the likelyhood of the combo being doable. None of this is new or exciting.
How he 'introduced' this doesn't really matter. Public reaction, doesn't really matter. It falls quite neatly within the bounds of a cheat/TAS/mod/whatever terminology your coping mechanisms desire. Just as it has done in any other game where VM has been tried.
After Siasin, I'd be really surprised if there's any significant VM usage from this point onwards. Undoubtably allbeast will continue to use it and perhaps release stuff - wouldn't expect any less than that. At this point it's his one and only notable 'achievement' and core to his identity in this tiny scene. At one time it was dumb player and bike skins. Now it's VM. But for the rest - probably not gonna see much. Maybe the odd wannabe trying to release a 'holy grail' stunt or make a name for themselves. But it sure as fuck won't be endemic.
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Deathcobra, you incorrect, i can give you one example, Haywire tried in his review my backwheel grind, he tried to mod it and failed, so modding and savestating not same, and you must be skilled stunter to make something good, savestate doesnt give itself for you good speed, like mod, so they totaly different
and i was never seriours about saying i'm number 1, it was joke of course, if i would be serious, i would land much easier stunts, never scream and would be number 1
i think i know another guy, he silent, never scream, and land hard enough for believe stunts, and everyone thinks that he number 1
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and i was never seriours about saying i'm number 1, it was joke of course, if i would be serious, i would land much easier stunts, never scream and would be number 1
Then remove your signature.
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and i was never seriours about saying i'm number 1, it was joke of course, if i would be serious, i would land much easier stunts, never scream and would be number 1
Then remove your signature.
ok
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If you want justice, simply disable powersave. :wub:
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If you want justice, simply disable powersave. :wub:
i never use it anyway, what more?
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If you want justice, simply disable powersave. :wub:
You saw powersave used in 1 stunt where you can see the reload happen during the run-up and now we need to remove it because 'justice'? You cannot be serious. Might as well remove Dannye's at that point and drive back to our starting point :lol:
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If you want justice, simply disable powersave. :wub:
You saw powersave used in 1 stunt where you can see the reload happen during the run-up and now we need to remove it because 'justice'? You cannot be serious. Might as well remove Dannye's at that point and drive back to our starting point :lol:
em, on which stunt? i never ever used powersave
also on most of stunts i didnt use dannye scm, like in old days, just was reloading savestate, without teleporting
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If you want justice, simply disable powersave. :wub:
You saw powersave used in 1 stunt where you can see the reload happen during the run-up and now we need to remove it because 'justice'? You cannot be serious. Might as well remove Dannye's at that point and drive back to our starting point :lol:
em, on which stunt? i never ever used powersave
also on most of stunts i didnt use dannye scm, like in old days, just was reloading savestate, without teleporting
If you never used it then why assume I'm talking about you. Look at the 'No Debuff' topic.
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If you want justice, simply disable powersave. :wub:
You saw powersave used in 1 stunt where you can see the reload happen during the run-up and now we need to remove it because 'justice'? You cannot be serious. Might as well remove Dannye's at that point and drive back to our starting point :lol:
em, on which stunt? i never ever used powersave
also on most of stunts i didnt use dannye scm, like in old days, just was reloading savestate, without teleporting
If you never used it then why assume I'm talking about you. Look at the 'No Debuff' topic.
lol, sorry, i thinked maybe you like Haywire, try find mods in my stunts, where they not exist
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If you want justice, simply disable powersave. :wub:
You saw powersave used in 1 stunt where you can see the reload happen during the run-up and now we need to remove it because 'justice'? You cannot be serious. Might as well remove Dannye's at that point and drive back to our starting point :lol:
or better yet play on console...i already have it in my PS2 emulator ready to play OMEGALUL
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If you want justice, simply disable powersave. :wub:
You saw powersave used in 1 stunt where you can see the reload happen during the run-up and now we need to remove it because 'justice'? You cannot be serious. Might as well remove Dannye's at that point and drive back to our starting point :lol:
It doesn't bother me, no offence. It is still bent physics to suit your purposes. For instance, some individuals performed barrack bumps using this tool for years without official publication ;p
So if people consider powersave to be OK, I fail to see the need to restrict VM. But it's just my opinion.
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Powersave and Prog's Barracks script are two different tools - both of which are publicly available to the entire community now
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJ_UDzSrTc
After talking with a larger group, the ppl considered the technique as cheat.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJ_UDzSrTc
After talking with a larger group, the ppl considered the technique as cheat.
But that is not Powersave, you're confusing tools. If you're doing a packerbump for example the packer, at least in VC, will move forward a tiny bit with each attempt. After a bunch of tries you will have to get in the packer and load your second save location to put it back in the correct place. Powersave is literally just being able to let the packer load the secondary position without having to get in the packer. It's no different than using a teleporter with your bike to get back to the start of the run-up. There is no 'bending the physics', it's just reloading a location to waste less time when trying stunts. What you're showing in that video is modding, sure, but that has nothing to do with what you're saying which is:
If you want justice, simply disable powersave. :wub:
That does not make any sense.
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vm is best for everything, no need powersave, no need dannye.scm for telerporting, just reload savestate for the win
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJ_UDzSrTc
After talking with a larger group, the ppl considered the technique as cheat.
But that is not Powersave, you're confusing tools. If you're doing a packerbump for example the packer, at least in VC, will move forward a tiny bit with each attempt. After a bunch of tries you will have to get in the packer and load your second save location to put it back in the correct place. Powersave is literally just being able to let the packer load the secondary position without having to get in the packer. It's no different than using a teleporter with your bike to get back to the start of the run-up. There is no 'bending the physics', it's just reloading a location to waste less time when trying stunts. What you're showing in that video is modding, sure, but that has nothing to do with what you're saying which is:
As far as I'm aware, there are several stunts when the stunter is saving in the game's action. Quick example - opener of TEOTL or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN6rka-FnhU.
In order to set a certain vehicle for our bump, we have a probability of one in a million in regular gaming.
I'm talking about saving ped's stats, like a barracks or a police helicopter.
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Powersave isn't even that useful. It doesn't work with stuck methods, it can look shit in replays, it's imprecise, etc etc. Save games I've found almost universally preferable. And both are functionally equivalent to just getting into the vehicle and reloading a secondary position/restucking. Saves themselves are a base part of the game and have been used since we started. Dannye's and teleporting generally has been used almost as long. If these methods are modding then I'd guess a huge portion of stunters have been modding for a long time. Sharing saves and such is very common.
Forcing vehicles around on paths so you can bump them is highly questionable imo. But not in anyway equivalent to powersave.
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one good thing about vm stunts, you can share your vm and savestate (without closing game) after landing stunt to prove that you didn't use mods, of course it possible to hide some tools, but not that easy
i mean it is possible to not use savestate during stunt, but only after landing stunt, just for proving that handling and the game folder is default
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one good thing about vm stunts, you can share your vm and savestate (without closing game) after landing stunt to prove that you didn't use mods, of course it possible to hide some tools, but not that easy
i mean it is possible to not use savestate during stunt, but only after landing stunt, just for proving that handling and the game folder is default
I used to wonder when Stunt System App will really be developed. But I'm terrible at programming - All I had to do was watch for the proper persona.
VM is a fantastic substitute for creating something similar. It's unquestionably not a negative thing that someone originally thought of it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJ_UDzSrTc
After talking with a larger group, the ppl considered the technique as cheat.
But that is not Powersave, you're confusing tools. If you're doing a packerbump for example the packer, at least in VC, will move forward a tiny bit with each attempt. After a bunch of tries you will have to get in the packer and load your second save location to put it back in the correct place. Powersave is literally just being able to let the packer load the secondary position without having to get in the packer. It's no different than using a teleporter with your bike to get back to the start of the run-up. There is no 'bending the physics', it's just reloading a location to waste less time when trying stunts. What you're showing in that video is modding, sure, but that has nothing to do with what you're saying which is:
As far as I'm aware, there are several stunts when the stunter is saving in the game's action. Quick example - opener of TEOTL or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN6rka-FnhU.
In order to set a certain vehicle for our bump, we have a probability of one in a million in regular gaming.
I'm talking about saving ped's stats, like a barracks or a police helicopter.
Again, not powersave. Can you read? The examples you give are not powersave.
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As far as I'm aware, there are several stunts when the stunter is saving in the game's action. Quick example - opener of TEOTL or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN6rka-FnhU.
In order to set a certain vehicle for our bump, we have a probability of one in a million in regular gaming.
I'm talking about saving ped's stats, like a barracks or a police helicopter.
Opener of EOTL was purely powersave - the car was spawned on the edge of the cliff and started rolling down slowly by itself. There was no pre-scripted path the car was always going to follow. This is something you can definitely set up without powersave - just place the car near the edge and use a satchel to slightly propell it forward (i.e. jeff's first part pre-finisher of the same video, just place the explosive a little further from the vehicle to not make it explode). I thought I made it clear in the video's topic... :hmm:
The other clip you posted is however the Maverick-Pop script from Prog which allows you to respawn a flying Maverick that will follow you around (sort of how the police helis behave with a wanted level=3), it indeed falls a little more towards the shady side of the spectrum - whether it should be allowed to use and considered as unmodded. I abused the respawn of it there to get the right position of the heli before the grab (it is something you could try to do with the default police helis, but yeah each attempt will be very time consuming).
When it comes to a NPC driving a certain straight-line with predefined speed and vehicle, it is the most questionable of all of the above in my opinion.
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If powersave is modding, then Burn, biel and alot more Top stunters are modders.
Burn uses barracks script aswell ( which I dont see a problem in)
Afaik, as long as u can do something without a tool using a tool should br fine.
No offense but I just find it straight up stupid that u call powersave modding. Barracks script, OK i somewhat understand u but powersave is litteraly so u dont have to leave ur bike or car to replace the secondary vehicle
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looks like you all modders and only I clean stunter
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This topic proves without a shadow of a doubt that all beast has autism
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This topic proves without a shadow of a doubt that all beast has autism
how many chromosomes do you need to have to write my nickname correctly? I think with the right punch to your face, I can give you back your missing chromosomes
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This topic proves without a shadow of a doubt that all beast has autism
how many chromosomes do you need to have to write my nickname correctly? I think with the right punch to your face, I can give you back your missing chromosomes
I'm sure you got some extra to spare :euro:
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This topic proves without a shadow of a doubt that all beast has autism
how many chromosomes do you need to have to write my nickname correctly? I think with the right punch to your face, I can give you back your missing chromosomes
I'm sure you got some extra to spare :euro:
unfortunately not, but I heard that if you hit a person hard, his own multiply, so go look around
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This topic proves without a shadow of a doubt that all beast has autism
how many chromosomes do you need to have to write my nickname correctly? I think with the right punch to your face, I can give you back your missing chromosomes
I'm sure you got some extra to spare :euro:
unfortunately not, but I heard that if you hit a person hard, his own multiply, so go look around
dont bee rude
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This topic proves without a shadow of a doubt that all beast has autism
how many chromosomes do you need to have to write my nickname correctly? I think with the right punch to your face, I can give you back your missing chromosomes
I'm sure you got some extra to spare :euro:
unfortunately not, but I heard that if you hit a person hard, his own multiply, so go look around
dont bee rude
when you start to love and pray to DSS, I will become affectionate
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As far as I'm aware, there are several stunts when the stunter is saving in the game's action. Quick example - opener of TEOTL or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN6rka-FnhU.
In order to set a certain vehicle for our bump, we have a probability of one in a million in regular gaming.
I'm talking about saving ped's stats, like a barracks or a police helicopter.
Opener of EOTL was purely powersave - the car was spawned on the edge of the cliff and started rolling down slowly by itself. There was no pre-scripted path the car was always going to follow. This is something you can definitely set up without powersave - just place the car near the edge and use a satchel to slightly propell it forward (i.e. jeff's first part pre-finisher of the same video, just place the explosive a little further from the vehicle to not make it explode). I thought I made it clear in the video's topic... :hmm:
The other clip you posted is however the Maverick-Pop script from Prog which allows you to respawn a flying Maverick that will follow you around (sort of how the police helis behave with a wanted level=3), it indeed falls a little more towards the shady side of the spectrum - whether it should be allowed to use and considered as unmodded. I abused the respawn of it there to get the right position of the heli before the grab (it is something you could try to do with the default police helis, but yeah each attempt will be very time consuming).
When it comes to a NPC driving a certain straight-line with predefined speed and vehicle, it is the most questionable of all of the above in my opinion.
Clearly, you weren't hit in this situation. This leads to the conclusion that the VM is not a terrible instrument for pulling off some fantastic tricks for spectacular videos like Limitless (love this shit so hard). After all, both applications are running on the same track (script for a barrack or poversave
I haven't used it, so I don't know). Obviously, if you employ it wisely, lol.
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As far as I'm aware, there are several stunts when the stunter is saving in the game's action. Quick example - opener of TEOTL or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN6rka-FnhU.
In order to set a certain vehicle for our bump, we have a probability of one in a million in regular gaming.
I'm talking about saving ped's stats, like a barracks or a police helicopter.
Opener of EOTL was purely powersave - the car was spawned on the edge of the cliff and started rolling down slowly by itself. There was no pre-scripted path the car was always going to follow. This is something you can definitely set up without powersave - just place the car near the edge and use a satchel to slightly propell it forward (i.e. jeff's first part pre-finisher of the same video, just place the explosive a little further from the vehicle to not make it explode). I thought I made it clear in the video's topic... :hmm:
The other clip you posted is however the Maverick-Pop script from Prog which allows you to respawn a flying Maverick that will follow you around (sort of how the police helis behave with a wanted level=3), it indeed falls a little more towards the shady side of the spectrum - whether it should be allowed to use and considered as unmodded. I abused the respawn of it there to get the right position of the heli before the grab (it is something you could try to do with the default police helis, but yeah each attempt will be very time consuming).
When it comes to a NPC driving a certain straight-line with predefined speed and vehicle, it is the most questionable of all of the above in my opinion.
Clearly, you weren't hit in this situation. This leads to the conclusion that the VM is not a terrible instrument for pulling off some fantastic tricks for spectacular videos like Limitless (love this shit so hard). After all, both applications are running on the same track (script for a barrack or poversave
I haven't used it, so I don't know). Obviously, if you employ it wisely, lol.
i love you, sorry, if i'm acting like asshole sometimes, it is just for show
in my opinion, the use of all scripts, etc., yes, this is not modding, since in a normal game this is also possible, but the probability is very low, this is just speeding up what can be done anyway, and the need to hope for luck decreases, another thing is any script, or program, must be indicated in the credits, well, or a new category is needed for such stunts
But, as I think, stunting is already almost dead, so no one will care anyway, even the fact that I tried to breathe new life into stunting was received with hostility, although I did not try to hide somehow, I just wanted to look honest people's opinion, and I saw it, so my experiment, I think, was a success
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Why not let everyone to do anything, even developing a general stunt app, if something is going to open up new possibilities for performing something incredible? Can we offer anything a little hope at the end of the dark tunnel if it is already unconscious and dying slowly? A wonderful place to start is with virtual machine - but I feel that it needs some improvement.
You may watch the Haywire's video to see how many jerks are jerking off, for instance. It's all because they saw something wonderful like a naked chick, lol. After this case, there are a lot of people who use VM to make average stunts, and only the inventor get hit.
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make it for san andreas
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You're allowed to do anything. Always have been.
What you'll get blasted for is trying to hide your TAS, your handling mods, your SACC binds, etc. And trying to pass these off as 'unmodded'. This is what Tack did, boxxx did, Tacojoe, Shadowsniper, and so on. Now Allbeast.
Discovered some new 'thing' that helps you land stuff? Should probably post it publicly and see what people think, especially when it's a major change. There's any number of methods you could use to manipulate the game into making stunts easier to land. Some will be considered legit. Some won't. If you're going to throw caution to the wind and start pumping out tons of reps and videos with this 'thing' whilst stating "I used a method" and trying to pass it as unmodded - sorry you're kind of a moron. That onus is on you for not understanding stunting, not caring, and not being upfront.
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You're allowed to do anything. Always have been.
What you'll get blasted for is trying to hide your TAS, your handling mods, your SACC binds, etc. And trying to pass these off as 'unmodded'. This is what Tack did, boxxx did, Tacojoe, Shadowsniper, and so on. Now Allbeast.
Discovered some new 'thing' that helps you land stuff? Should probably post it publicly and see what people think, especially when it's a major change. There's any number of methods you could use to manipulate the game into making stunts easier to land. Some will be considered legit. Some won't. If you're going to throw caution to the wind and start pumping out tons of reps and videos with this 'thing' whilst stating "I used a method" and trying to pass it as unmodded - sorry you're kind of a moron. That onus is on you for not understanding stunting, not caring, and not being upfront.
Age: 30
(I have a little less)
I am here for one purpose only, no cares bout stunting. It's nice to see something good once in a while. I'm here to keep my abilities from deteriorating, I occasionally stick to some editing.
When anything reaches that age, you should either let it go and let it die gradually, or give the more tenacious ones additional chances by unanimous verdict to see something special in future.
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Again you can't offer a coherent argument. Your response to "you should probably make it public" is this:
- You're old
- I don't care about stunting
- Things that reach age 30 should be left to die (???)
Like this is either the most depressing world view I've ever encountered, or you're on something my man. Either way, sorry to hear that I guess :|
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Again you can't offer a coherent argument. Your response to "you should probably make it public" is this:
- You're old
- I don't care about stunting
- Things that reach age 30 should be left to die (???)
Like this is either the most depressing world view I've ever encountered, or you're on something my man. Either way, sorry to hear that I guess :|
I'm four years younger than you, and I could do some other awesome things without having to chat to you here.
But you're so into it...
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Then go do them? What the fuck is this discussion :lol:
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What you'll get blasted for is trying to hide your TAS, your handling mods, your SACC binds, etc. And trying to pass these off as 'unmodded'. This is what Tack did, boxxx did, Tacojoe, Shadowsniper, and so on. Now Allbeast.
Im still convinced that what I did was not modding, in the old days I would have done a vote, but now there are not many people visiting the forum, so it is pointless, my position is that modding makes it possible to do something that cannot be done in the game, and savestate doesnt give that option, so it is not modding
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Stunting history is littered with stunts that were perfectly possible, but somebody modded them first. They were still modded.
Gaming history is littered with cheaters that were later outperformed by people that were legit. They still cheated.
Nothing will convince you.
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Stunting history is littered with stunts that were perfectly possible, but somebody modded them first. They were still modded.
Gaming history is littered with cheaters that were later outperformed by people that were legit. They still cheated.
Nothing will convince you.
for me it is not so important anyway, I showed everything that can be done in the game, and I am happy with the result. I have other ideas, but absolutely no desire to do anything
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You're allowed to do anything. Always have been.
What you'll get blasted for is trying to hide your TAS, your handling mods, your SACC binds, etc. And trying to pass these off as 'unmodded'. This is what Tack did, boxxx did, Tacojoe, Shadowsniper, and so on. Now Allbeast.
Discovered some new 'thing' that helps you land stuff? Should probably post it publicly and see what people think, especially when it's a major change. There's any number of methods you could use to manipulate the game into making stunts easier to land. Some will be considered legit. Some won't. If you're going to throw caution to the wind and start pumping out tons of reps and videos with this 'thing' whilst stating "I used a method" and trying to pass it as unmodded - sorry you're kind of a moron. That onus is on you for not understanding stunting, not caring, and not being upfront.
In what universe did he mod his stunts rofl
Bro litteraly found a way to bend time it self on a computer. Thats not modding
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Well said angle.fire
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Timur I'll go over this carefully so tell me where I am wrong with this. I'll speak of what I've seen. I won't send a single more post of this. Not sure if you'd care though but anyway.
Before the release of Limitless and confession about savestates, people admired your work for your stunts and what you did for community. Known for landing bangers when you can. Of course some careful people noticed how smooth were your executions and thought they could be scripted but it is obviously not true since it's the thing happening in the actual game and they are possible. I had all reasons for why people would be your fan. You are unique. Your dedication to these stunts in Limitless were unparalled.
You produced something like this at the game's 20th year. I wasn't around when UnorthodoX was released but I can see how people were shook when it's released because I had the same reaction watching Limitless. I am sure most people were, judging by the comments to that. But also people wanted to believe all of this was done in one go. Like skating. You either fail terribly or nail it. Foundation of what sparked the idea to try the very things we're doing today. Dedication and success.
So it's clear nobody knew the method. All of a sudden we received Limitless with this text:
"Hello everyone. I want to present you my last solo. Why the last? because I have nothing more to prove. I tried to make the most complex and spectacular stunts."
No context, no mentioning of any method used. Just a normal video release. Stunts are looking clear. And we're shook.
Quote from: Simon on February 09, 2022, 03:44:31 AM
Really good video! Some really cool grind combos in there, the triple one on the ship probably being my favorite. Interested to try that finisher for myself as well.
And as I always tell you, I would have enjoyed this video a lot more if you didn't hype it so much. There are lots of really solid stunts in here that are just brought down because you've set the expectations too high. That doesn't mean it's a bad video, it just means I didn't enjoy it as much as I could have.
thank you, i prefer hype to see real reaction
Ugh anyways. So you revealed your method. You were hiding it for no actual reason at all. But wanted to see the what people thought about you for your dishonesty with them not knowing the truth. The method itself is cheating. I cannot stop time when I'm grinding while skating,I cannot save my previous self for speed or angle. Basically I cannot cheat it.
Still, it is a step towards pushing gtastunting to forward. There's no denying that. I really wonder what more would be done with this in following years. And I will be fascinated. Because now I know what is behind it and it is still dedication and effort. And I think this is the general opinion of people. I'd still love if you stunted more with this.
All of this, for nothing. Nothing productive. But to test people when there's no reason for it. All of this could've been avoided.
So I will re iterate myself from my previous post.
It's not dead. You are. You just like to fight each other and looking forward to an opportunity to do it. This is a golden one for you since there's no end here.
thanks, i know it is a cheat, but in my defense, like i said, i was trying to do something really complicated, even if Haywire didnt try to figure out how i do it, i would still say, because i did it on purpose overly complicated stunts, I know for sure that no one will repeat them, but what made me laugh the most was how some people said that the stunts were not very good, and that they could repeat them
so heres the bottom line why i would still tell the truth because i wanted people to bring something new to stunting since he was practically dead, if it was 2007-2008 i would never tell the truth
like I said before, I tried to do something like this for a very long time, but I didnt have enough experience, but after I saw the new live reaction fashion from Haywire, I really wanted to do something incredible and see peoples faces
thats why I did not immediately say how I did it, since the reaction would be different
again, as bad as it might seem, I could have done more "real" stunts and never said anything, but I wanted to both surprise people and bring something new to the stunting
it is like going to a magic show, you know youre being lied to, but youre still happy with it
if Haywire hadnt started doing live reactions I guess I wouldnt have been trying so hard to find a way to make savestates so you can thank him a little for that too
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There has never been justice on this forum but you've screwed up everything you've ever done here.
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There has never been justice on this forum but you've screwed up everything you've ever done here.
if there was never justice, how i can screw up something?
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There has never been justice on this forum but you've screwed up everything you've ever done here.
if there was never justice, how i can screw up something?
You have tarnished your reputation with these tricks. In VC stunting there was some order unlike SA where every nub became an idol overnight.
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There has never been justice on this forum but you've screwed up everything you've ever done here.
if there was never justice, how i can screw up something?
You have tarnished your reputation with these tricks. In VC stunting there was some order unlike SA where every nub became an idol overnight.
I dont think I ever had a good reputation, so for the most part I dont give a fuck, I caught my moment of fame and it was enough for me
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There has never been justice on this forum but you've screwed up everything you've ever done here.
if there was never justice, how i can screw up something?
You have tarnished your reputation with these tricks. In VC stunting there was some order unlike SA where every nub became an idol overnight.
I dont think I ever had a good reputation, so for the most part I dont give a fuck, I caught my moment of fame and it was enough for me
I don't give a fuck too and I just random post, but your justifying and whining is boring.
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There has never been justice on this forum but you've screwed up everything you've ever done here.
if there was never justice, how i can screw up something?
You have tarnished your reputation with these tricks. In VC stunting there was some order unlike SA where every nub became an idol overnight.
I dont think I ever had a good reputation, so for the most part I dont give a fuck, I caught my moment of fame and it was enough for me
I don't give a fuck too and I just random post, but your justifying and whining is boring.
and after that people say that I'm rude
fuck you sucker, get it out of your signature, your fucking solo, it was so shit that I turned off the video in the first minute
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There has never been justice on this forum but you've screwed up everything you've ever done here.
if there was never justice, how i can screw up something?
You have tarnished your reputation with these tricks. In VC stunting there was some order unlike SA where every nub became an idol overnight.
I dont think I ever had a good reputation, so for the most part I dont give a fuck, I caught my moment of fame and it was enough for me
I don't give a fuck too and I just random post, but your justifying and whining is boring.
and after that people say that I'm rude
fuck you sucker, get it out of your signature, your fucking solo, it was so shit that I turned off the video in the first minute
hahahhahahahahaahha you are defeated little boy. Be a man and say I modded. I wanted to be new Barney in an illegal way.
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There has never been justice on this forum but you've screwed up everything you've ever done here.
if there was never justice, how i can screw up something?
You have tarnished your reputation with these tricks. In VC stunting there was some order unlike SA where every nub became an idol overnight.
I dont think I ever had a good reputation, so for the most part I dont give a fuck, I caught my moment of fame and it was enough for me
I don't give a fuck too and I just random post, but your justifying and whining is boring.
and after that people say that I'm rude
fuck you sucker, get it out of your signature, your fucking solo, it was so shit that I turned off the video in the first minute
hahahhahahahahaahha you are defeated little boy. Be a man and say I modded. I wanted to be new Barney in an illegal way.
lol, i didnt mod, even Barney used my method in his new solo, i even proved that several times, he just hiding
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There has never been justice on this forum but you've screwed up everything you've ever done here.
if there was never justice, how i can screw up something?
You have tarnished your reputation with these tricks. In VC stunting there was some order unlike SA where every nub became an idol overnight.
I dont think I ever had a good reputation, so for the most part I dont give a fuck, I caught my moment of fame and it was enough for me
I don't give a fuck too and I just random post, but your justifying and whining is boring.
and after that people say that I'm rude
fuck you sucker, get it out of your signature, your fucking solo, it was so shit that I turned off the video in the first minute
hahahhahahahahaahha you are defeated little boy. Be a man and say I modded. I wanted to be new Barney in an illegal way.
lol, i didnt mod, even Barney used my method in his new solo, i even proved that several times, he just hiding
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Bye little boy.
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a best stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunting as seriously as everyone else
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a better stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunts as seriously as everyone else
How old are you?
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a better stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunts as seriously as everyone else
How old are you?
35, you can see it in my profile
I could keep hiding the savestate further, but I wanted everyone to try something new
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a better stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunts as seriously as everyone else
How old are you?
35, you can see it in my profile
Omg.
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a better stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunts as seriously as everyone else
How old are you?
35, you can see it in my profile
Omg.
lol, watch my reaction to haywire savestated solo, and you can see that i really have fun here and never take anything serious
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a better stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunts as seriously as everyone else
How old are you?
35, you can see it in my profile
Omg.
lol, watch my reaction to haywire savestated solo, and you can see that i really have fun here and never take anything serious
I'm serious now. I remember the big hype before your solo Annihilation because Theftman edited it and then he talked to DaredevilX about it. There was some talk that it would be in the rank of the Unorthodox. Even though it wasn't like that, it was a great solo. What you are doing now is a shame and I'm disappointed because I respected you in a way.
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a better stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunts as seriously as everyone else
How old are you?
35, you can see it in my profile
Omg.
lol, watch my reaction to haywire savestated solo, and you can see that i really have fun here and never take anything serious
I'm serious now. I remember the big hype before your solo Annihilation because Theftman edited it and then he talked to DaredevilX about it. There was some talk that it would be in the rank of the Unorthodox. Even though it wasn't like that, it was a great solo. What you are doing now is a shame and I'm disappointed because I respected you in a way.
you didnt understand, I didnt want to be the best, I wanted to see peoples reaction, I saw it and told about my method to do something incredible Im not saying it is a fair way but stunting hit its ceiling and i wanted to beat it which i did and note i spent 100 hours+ on each stunt and notice that almost no one uses my method, not because that it is bad, but because it is difficult to do something good with it
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a better stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunts as seriously as everyone else
How old are you?
35, you can see it in my profile
Omg.
lol, watch my reaction to haywire savestated solo, and you can see that i really have fun here and never take anything serious
I'm serious now. I remember the big hype before your solo Annihilation because Theftman edited it and then he talked to DaredevilX about it. There was some talk that it would be in the rank of the Unorthodox. Even though it wasn't like that, it was a great solo. What you are doing now is a shame and I'm disappointed because I respected you in a way.
you didnt understand, I didnt want to be the best, I wanted to see peoples reaction, I saw it and told about my method to do something incredible Im not saying it is a fair way but stunting hit its ceiling and i wanted to beat it which i did and note i spent 100 hours+ on each stunt and notice that almost no one uses my method, not because that it is bad, but because it is difficult to do something good with it
Haywire did everything right when he released his solo. It's the only correct way. Sorry but all this looks like a justification now.
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a better stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunts as seriously as everyone else
How old are you?
35, you can see it in my profile
Omg.
lol, watch my reaction to haywire savestated solo, and you can see that i really have fun here and never take anything serious
I'm serious now. I remember the big hype before your solo Annihilation because Theftman edited it and then he talked to DaredevilX about it. There was some talk that it would be in the rank of the Unorthodox. Even though it wasn't like that, it was a great solo. What you are doing now is a shame and I'm disappointed because I respected you in a way.
you didnt understand, I didnt want to be the best, I wanted to see peoples reaction, I saw it and told about my method to do something incredible Im not saying it is a fair way but stunting hit its ceiling and i wanted to beat it which i did and note i spent 100 hours+ on each stunt and notice that almost no one uses my method, not because that it is bad, but because it is difficult to do something good with it
Haywire did everything right when he released his solo. It's the only correct way. Sorry but all this looks like a justification now.
ok, no matter what it looks like, although I did not immediately say exactly how I do it, while I was doing solo, I said that I use my secret method, that is, people already knew that I use help
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you never understood a simple thing, I could easily be a better stunter, I just had to do more real stunts, and not shout that I'm the best, could I do it? of course, but that's not my style, I'm just having fun and don't take stunts as seriously as everyone else
How old are you?
35, you can see it in my profile
Omg.
lol, watch my reaction to haywire savestated solo, and you can see that i really have fun here and never take anything serious
I'm serious now. I remember the big hype before your solo Annihilation because Theftman edited it and then he talked to DaredevilX about it. There was some talk that it would be in the rank of the Unorthodox. Even though it wasn't like that, it was a great solo. What you are doing now is a shame and I'm disappointed because I respected you in a way.
you didnt understand, I didnt want to be the best, I wanted to see peoples reaction, I saw it and told about my method to do something incredible Im not saying it is a fair way but stunting hit its ceiling and i wanted to beat it which i did and note i spent 100 hours+ on each stunt and notice that almost no one uses my method, not because that it is bad, but because it is difficult to do something good with it
Haywire did everything right when he released his solo. It's the only correct way. Sorry but all this looks like a justification now.
ok, no matter what it looks like, although I did not immediately say exactly how I do it, while I was doing solo, I said that I use my secret method, that is, people already knew that I use help
Now I regret even getting involved in the discussion because I can see that you care about all this. My primary goal was to troll a bit although I generally mean everything I wrote. However, you didn't deserve that much because you've been in VC stunting since the start and you've proven that you have skill. And a lot of bigger modders went under the radar in SA and became idols, but that's another story. Unfortunately, it's more difficult to prove than this, but I'm still waiting some noobs who tried to convince me that it was possible to land some stunts clean but they never sent me reps.
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...you've been in VC stunting since the start and you've proven that you have skill.
Pretty wild stretch of the imagination there, bud