GTAStunting

General => Community Council => Topic started by: VaNilla on May 26, 2012, 02:57:32 PM

Title: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 26, 2012, 02:57:32 PM

The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept

Introduction

I've noticed something. For a long time, people have wanted to see a "Best of GTAStunting" video. Attempts have been made to make one, but all of them have failed. There are a few fatal flaws that have prevented them from being successful.

• Making one big "Best of GTAStunting" video is a massive undertaking for the whole community, let alone one editor. This makes organisation incredibly difficult, and it also makes the job very stressful for the editor. This leads to de-motivation, and as a result of this, the video never gets made.
• The term "Best of GTAStunting" is very subjective. As an editor you must try to accommodate for your target audience. For this video, that audience is GTAStunting, a large community with lots of different people and opinions to go with it. As a result of this, organisers wrongly try to satisfy everybody, and end up accepting hundreds of different replays. Unless you want an hour long video, this is totally counter-productive, and it works against the objective you're trying to achieve in the first place. Quality over quantity is important, but it's an impossible compromise in this type of environment.

This leads to an important question. How can we satisfy everybody, and still end up with an amazing video?

The Best of GTAStunting, Vol. 1

My idea is to create "Volumes" instead. Volumes are typically collections of content released in a small package, commonly used in the TV and Music industry. My proposal is that we take this approach to exposing "The Best of GTAStunting". These volumes would be short videos, released once at the beginning of every month. There would be between 5-10 stunts in each volume, and they would all be released on the GTAStunting YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/GTAStunting). This would keep them easily manageable, and easy to edit. They would also be far more enjoyable for all audiences, for the following reasons.

• Short videos allow the editor to focus on quality over quantity. This also means that viewers don't have to sit through long boring videos.
• Alleviates the stress of undertaking a massive editing project. It's not fun to organise or edit massive videos, not at all.
• If we only made one video to show off "The Best of GTAStunting", it would become outdated as soon as somebody releases a new video. By releasing a series of short volumes, it becomes timeless.

The idea is great, but we still have major problems to solve. How would we organise a video like this? Everybody has their own favourite stunts, but not every stunt can make the cut. The amount of stunts submitted to the video could also become overwhelming if we don't have a good system to manage it. How would we even pick an editor? I've thought about this, and here's my solution.

Week 1 and 2: Organisation

Stunts: Applications (Week 1)

At the beginning of each month, each member of the community would be able to submit one of their best stunts to the video. These would be posted publicly in "The Best of GTAStunting: Stunting Applications Topic" (a new thread would be created each month). This thread would be limited to applications only, all other posts would be deleted by moderators (making it easier to see what's been sent in). The community would have one week to send in their replays before applications are closed. The thread would be closed at the end of the deadline. The requirements would be as follows.

• You must submit your own replay (it can't be landed by someone else).
• You must submit any relevant skins/fonts that you would like the editor to use. Failure to comply will result in the editor choosing on your behalf.
• You are limited to a maximum of one stunt per volume.
• You must not submit modded stunts.
• You must also submit an unlisted clip on YouTube (this allows the community to check each stunt more easily).

Stunts: Voting (Week 2)

When the deadline is complete, "The Best of GTAStunting: Stunting Votes Topic" would be created. A poll would be created with an option allocated to each stunter that submitted a stunt to the video. The community would then vote on their favourite applications, and also be able to discuss the applications in the topic. The top 5-10 stunters with the highest number of votes would then be selected to feature in the video. Users would have a deadline of one week to submit their votes, allowing editors 2 weeks to finish the video on time, before the month is out. Both the thread and the poll would be closed at the end of the deadline.

Editing: Applications (Week 1)

At the beginning of each month, each member of the community would be able to apply to edit the video. These applications would be posted publicly in "The Best of GTAStunting: Editor's Applications Topic" (a new thread would be created each month). This thread would be limited to applications only, all other posts would be deleted by moderators (making it easier to see all the applications). The community would have one week to send in their applications before submissions are closed. The thread would be closed at the end of the deadline. The requirements would be as follows.

• You must have two weeks free at the end of the month. You will need this time to edit the video if you are selected. Do not waste our time if you know you wont be able to do it, because you will just cause problems.
• You must make sure that all of your software is working before submitting your application (eg. Fraps, Sony Vegas, GTA VC/SA/IV). If you have an unstable computer, please do not apply. If your computer breaks during the 2 week editing process, you will cause major problems.
• You must have the ability to accept feedback and constructive criticism. This will be important when checking your final edit before it's uploaded to the GTAStunting YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/GTAStunting). Last minute changes may be necessary (eg. compression, frame rate, bugs).
• You must take the job seriously. We want you to enjoy editing the video, but if we're going to successfully organise a monthly volume, you must take the deadline seriously. This is not the GTAStunting League, you can't ask for extensions unless you have a very good reason.

Editing: Voting (Week 2)

When the deadline is complete, "The Best of GTAStunting: Editor's Voting Topic" would be created. A poll would be created with an option allocated to each editor that sent in an application. The community would then vote on their favourite applications, and also be able to discuss the applications in the topic. The editor with the most votes would then be selected to edit the video. Users would have a deadline of one week to submit their votes, allowing editors 2 weeks to finish the video on time, before the month is out. Both the thread and the poll would be closed at the end of the deadline.

Week 3 and 4: Finalisation

The First Week of Editing: Beta (Week 3)

When the editor is chosen, the organisers/administrators will package all the selected stunts (and their respective skins/fonts) into a folder for each stunter, pack them into a ZIP file, and then send them to the editor. The editor will have two weeks to edit the video in total.

By the end of the the first week of editing, the editor must complete a beta version of the video. This must be uploaded and then privately sent to the organisers/administrators. This allows us to check if the editor will actually be able to finish the video on time. If the editor is unable to finish on time, then they must notify the organisers/administrators before the end of week 3. This allows us time to give the job to the runner up, ensuring that the video can be finished on time. If the 2nd editor is also unable to finish the video before the end of the month's deadline, then the stunts would carry over to the next month of applications, and be voted on again. This prevents fatal errors in organisation, in a way that's both sensible and fair.

The Second Week of Editing: Final (Week 4)

The editor must submit the video to organisers/administrators at least 24 hours before the end of the month's deadline. This gives us the chance to fix technical issues, and prevent people from abusing the system. Once the video has been approved for release, it will be uploaded to the GTAStunting YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/GTAStunting).

Conclusion

Releasing volumes of "The Best of GTAStunting" would allow these types of videos to be organised quickly and efficiently. As a result of being short videos, they would also be a lot more accessible, especially for audiences who are new to GTAStunting. Releasing volumes would also prevent editors and organisers from becoming demotivated, because volumes are relatively easy to manage. And finally, it simply makes sense. It allows the format to stay exciting and fresh.

Thoughts? I posted this idea as a result of popular demand, but at this point it's just an idea. I don't want to organise the videos, and I don't want to edit them, I just wanted to put this out there :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Kingalmighty on May 26, 2012, 03:03:38 PM

the idea of having to apply and get voted in is interesting
but i guess thats the only way we will get a best of everyone agrees on
it would be cool to see this happen, good luck to you all

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Phamus on May 26, 2012, 03:57:03 PM

Could be like a Summer Special.  ;)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Determined on May 26, 2012, 04:01:13 PM

Damn, I don't have any good stunts.

Gotta quickly land & release something  :ninja:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Phamus on May 26, 2012, 04:04:43 PM

Quote from: Determined on May 26, 2012, 04:01:13 PM

Damn, I don't have any good stunts.

Gotta quickly land & release something  :ninja:

Take your time to land something magnificent.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Plani on May 26, 2012, 04:08:24 PM

I'm totally supporting this.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Determined on May 26, 2012, 04:10:02 PM

Take my time?  :lol:
I've been trying 1 spot for over a year to no avail  :lol:  :(

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: TurBo on May 26, 2012, 04:10:48 PM

As we do with our little vid, the volumes system... I support it.

e: I think the 10th anniversary would have to be in 2013.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: TrYp on May 26, 2012, 04:30:10 PM

If it happens, the first month will be crowded like hell, I mean a lot of people will try to submit something. The idea is unique and I liked how you listed everything from the beginning till the end.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 26, 2012, 05:34:48 PM

Quote from: TrYp on May 26, 2012, 04:30:10 PM

If it happens, the first month will be crowded like hell, I mean a lot of people will try to submit something. The idea is unique and I liked how you listed everything from the beginning till the end.

Thanks :), and yeah I understand that, but with this system people could keep on submitting their stunts until it gets into one of the best of videos. For me this is the only way any 'best of videos' would actually ever get made. And not only that, but because there's an actual structure in place, it makes selecting the best stunts a community effort, which is really the whole point. So even if loads submit stunts, it's the same structure as if only a few did.

I'm not saying it would last forever, but it's certainly the best way I can think of doing it. There would come a point when it would get tired, and it would just be the same thing over and over again. That's when I'd stop, and that's why it's important that people make good choices on the first time round, if they support the idea :P

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: RedX on May 26, 2012, 08:50:12 PM

tldr, but I'm sure you made some valid points and I'd love to see this vid happen :D

edit: SS I noticed you suggested 5-10 stunts per volume. imo we should do more like 15-20, what do you other people think?

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: PM on May 26, 2012, 09:24:53 PM

I think 10 is okay, because that amount you said is not far from a collaboration and if we have not even month to edit it as best as we can, it's too much.

However, the idea is just awesome, I don't wanna be pessimist, but I worry, that it will fail like community video or any big video, that GTAStunting organizes.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: GDL on May 27, 2012, 01:30:45 AM

Your idea is interesting but I suspect that this will fail as well as any other 'Best of GTAS' video due to the fact that mature and experienced people are needed for organizing/editing and GTAS just lack this kind of people. I'd gladly take part in this if it succeeds though.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: PtRvY on May 27, 2012, 01:39:47 AM

Obtaining awesome and classic released stunts, even from retired people, is not a very hard thing. The very hard thing, though, is selecting which 10 get to be in the video, especially the first time around when you can expect a massive attack of submitees.

Hence, I support your idea and think it is for the best, but I offer a small amendment to it:

My idea is to not let more than 20 stunts apply in each cycle. Also stunts which have absolutely no chance of getting in (stunts that haven't really been recognized at all when they were released - fillers) should be removed, so that those 20 are definitely of the top quality kind.

That would effectively stop people from crowding it early on and hopefully if the vids come regularly they will maintain their interest even if they don't make it in a current cycle. :)

Thoughts?

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 27, 2012, 05:00:38 AM

I think 5-10 is a better number personally, I think if there's too many stunts then it's unlikely to get finished on time. And I also just think less stunts would make for a more entertaining video.

As for your idea PtRvY, I also thought about this. But then what you're saying to people is "as soon as the topic is up, you have to rush to post your stunt before anybody else". If I was organising it, I don't think people would enjoy that. I'd rather gauge how many people apply the first time round, and see if any problems are introduced before I'd make a change like that :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: jeff on May 27, 2012, 12:58:53 PM

Quote from: Plani on May 26, 2012, 04:08:24 PM

I'm totally supporting this.

            (http://media.gtanet.com/gtagarage/images/smilies/rahkstar2.gif)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: DeathMazhine on May 27, 2012, 01:36:50 PM

great idea

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Syny on May 27, 2012, 02:08:47 PM

Great idea and good luck  :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Caio on May 27, 2012, 07:28:56 PM

That was an awesome idea, I'd love to see this happening. I like the way you're going to select the stunts.

Now, we have to get in contact with the retired guys for when it starts so they can send their reps :P

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Ltab- on May 27, 2012, 07:30:39 PM

I'm totally supporting all your points SS, great job on it!

Quote from: Promagic on May 26, 2012, 09:24:53 PM

I think 10 is okay, because that amount you said is not far from a collaboration and if we have not even month to edit it as best as we can, it's too much.

I think the same, in my eyes (and motivation/editing "soul") 10 stunts would be perfect, you can edit every stunt with a good variety of angles and you can try different enviroments and effects due to the fact you have 2 weeks which is more than enough to finish that, plus fixing any kind of mistakes.


Just one question, I didn't understood pretty well (since I've readed the whole topic and sometimes I got confused :lol:) 1 volume contains 1 editor in total? or it's like top 3 editors with more votes, I mean I'd suggest to take i.e. 15 stunts and split it between the 3 editors :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Ed on May 28, 2012, 12:13:39 AM

The concept sounds great and all, but in my opinion nobody would want to organise it, as it'd take quite a big amount of free time.
Also, you haven't really mentioned whether the stunts per one volume should be both SA/VC (maybe even III), or should they be separated, f.ex, 1st, 3rd, 5th<...> volumes would contain only VC/LC stuff while 2nd, 4th, 6th<...> only SA. I submitted this idea because mixed stunt videos simply don't look as good as they'd have been when organised as separated sa and vc ones.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: mqtH on May 28, 2012, 02:12:13 AM

Digital+ just get fucked..  <_<

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Sleixe on May 28, 2012, 05:22:00 AM

It sounds fine to me, also Petars suggestion is fine to me.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Determined on May 28, 2012, 05:41:15 AM

Wait, what material do the applied editors use for their applications?  :hmm:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: mqtH on May 28, 2012, 05:42:07 AM

Quote from: Determined on May 28, 2012, 05:41:15 AM

Wait, what material do the applied editors use for their applications?  :hmm:

Sony Vegas :lol:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Determined on May 28, 2012, 05:44:19 AM

That's an instrument, not a material!  :angry:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: mqtH on May 28, 2012, 05:45:27 AM

What do you mean then ?

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Phamus on May 28, 2012, 09:08:11 AM

It's not an instrument c'mon..

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Determined on May 28, 2012, 09:18:34 AM

It is.
I mean, are we gonna have to use random stunts or... ?
'cause it says that editors apply prior to approved stunters (at least that's how I understood it).

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Phamus on May 28, 2012, 09:28:49 AM

Sony Vegas is an..instrument? In what term, musical? Or do you mean an application?

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Determined on May 28, 2012, 09:31:04 AM

An instrument for making videos, same as a violin is an instrument for making music or a hammer an instrument for building & renovating.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Phamus on May 28, 2012, 09:33:49 AM

I understand.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 28, 2012, 09:53:02 AM

Quote from: Ltab on May 27, 2012, 07:30:39 PM

Just one question, I didn't understood pretty well (since I've readed the whole topic and sometimes I got confused :lol:) 1 volume contains 1 editor in total? or it's like top 3 editors with more votes, I mean I'd suggest to take i.e. 15 stunts and split it between the 3 editors :)

One editor per video. The top editor would be given the job, and if they can't do it the job would be given to the 2nd, and then possibly the third. If all of them fail to complete it, then all the submitted stunts would carry over to the next month's vote. More than one editor would complicate things, as you'd have to make everything merge nicely. With the deadline for the editing, and the possibility of people living in different time zones, I don't see how it would ever work :P

Quote from:   Ed  on May 28, 2012, 12:13:39 AM

The concept sounds great and all, but in my opinion nobody would want to organise it, as it'd take quite a big amount of free time.
Also, you haven't really mentioned whether the stunts per one volume should be both SA/VC (maybe even III), or should they be separated, f.ex, 1st, 3rd, 5th<...> volumes would contain only VC/LC stuff while 2nd, 4th, 6th<...> only SA. I submitted this idea because mixed stunt videos simply don't look as good as they'd have been when organised as separated sa and vc ones.

I would see them as mixed stunt videos (ie. VC, SA, IV). It's possible to record each game in the exact same way (ie. 30fps), and good editors should know how to use replays from different games (the game you're recording from doesn't limit how you use it at all, at least for GTA). So if it were me organising it (I don't have the time), then that's what I would do.

Quote from: Determined on May 28, 2012, 05:41:15 AM

Wait, what material do the applied editors use for their applications?  :hmm:

Up to them. It could range from "omg plz let me edit", to "I would like to edit the video because of ABC, and here's my past work". So if I was applying, I'd explain why I wanted to edit, and show the quality of my editing in the past. This way, you would have an easier time convincing people to let you edit, even if you're already well known. But you could say anything, all you need to apply is a post in the applications topic.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Determined on May 28, 2012, 10:02:56 AM

Ok, d'accord, thanks for clearing that up.
Although, I personally think it would be better if anyone could attempt to edit a part of the vid & it could be either privately or publicly evaluated & compared with others & then the best one would take the prize.
Seems more convenient to me, anyways  :lol:
+ It would lesser the possibility of the editor dropping the project, 'cause there would be more than 1 working on it at the same time.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 28, 2012, 10:16:16 AM

Quote from: Determined on May 28, 2012, 10:02:56 AM

Ok, d'accord, thanks for clearing that up.
Although, I personally think it would be better if anyone could attempt to edit a part of the vid & it could be either privately or publicly evaluated & compared with others & then the best one would take the prize.
Seems more convenient to me, anyways  :lol:
+ It would lesser the possibility of the editor dropping the project, 'cause there would be more than 1 working on it at the same time.

Well all the applications would be public, so although you wouldn't receive a package from the organisers/administrators, you could still try to edit them yourself. Just not as an official release :P

There's a lesser chance of it not releasing on time, but then you have to put yourself in the position of choosing the best edit. You can't pick it yourself, so you'd have to put it to a vote of the community with all the versions other people have edited. And then the sense of occasion is totally ruined, because you're having people judging the quality of the editing before it's even released, which isn't how this should work.

I want both inexperienced and technically skilled editors to try editing these videos. The main point is that they know how to properly edit and render videos, the editing doesn't have to be perfect. If you aim for that, then it loses the whole 'community' atmosphere. We've seen this with the organisation of previous community videos, where people feel they've been unfairly rejected. So, this way is still the best option in my opinion :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: FIGHTER on May 28, 2012, 10:57:08 AM

Great idea Mr SS. limit it to 10-13 stunts. :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Neo Anderson on May 28, 2012, 06:35:41 PM

I like this idea of yours SS on doing "best of" videos. If I follow this would be stunts we've used in previous vids? Kinda like a "history of GTAStunting" thing?

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 28, 2012, 07:17:33 PM

Best of the old, best of the new. My idea is to take the essence of "The Best of GTAStunting", but produce it in a way that's more accessible, and easier to manage. I don't want it to be some elitist thing either, anyone should have a chance of getting in, that's why I want a vote system like this. It would show some of the best old stunts, and the best new stunts.

By having short videos as well, it just makes it that much easier for people to get into, especially those who know nothing about GTAStunting. And that's why I want a fair system, and a fair representation of the stunts that've been landed both in the past, present and future. I feel like if we made one long video, with one editor, and without voting based organisation, that it would be exploited by certain people. This way keeps it fun, fair, and removes all the stress associated with making such videos.

I wish I could have the time to organise it myself, because I know I'd do it right. I just don't think I have the time, and I don't know if people would have confidence in me anyway. I might consider organising it, but people would have to go with the rules I've presented. I hope it goes well though, whoever manages it :P.

Also if it were me organising it, I'd like to edit the first video, just to properly demonstrate the format I'm imagining. That's why I don't feel comfortable organising it in the first place, as I'm already editing both for my job and for my own videos. So I don't know what will happen :hmm:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: TurBo on May 28, 2012, 07:50:50 PM

Would've been ideal if the one with the vision would've been the first to test the system, however.. I can see how it might be problematic.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 28, 2012, 07:53:08 PM

Indeed. If anyone wants me to do the first video, they would have to wait until July minimum. So if this is going to happen before then, it's without me. In any case, I think the plan I've laid out is a good one :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: MtS on May 29, 2012, 04:34:06 PM

.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 30, 2012, 02:48:46 AM

Quote from: MtS on May 29, 2012, 04:34:06 PM

and btw, can i send the same stunt for another volume if it got rejected? just a doubt  :P

That's the idea, the only stunts I wouldn't allow would be modded, landed by somebody other than who submitted it, or one that's already been used in one of the 'volumes' previously. It would be good if people could follow a specific encoding standard, but frankly I don't think most editors on GTAS have the necessary knowledge to do it. It would be best if whoever organises this discusses it with the editor. They would figure out how they could best render out the video, and then do it that way. Even if it meant rendering at 640x360, that's the best way in my opinion :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Ѕcavenger on May 30, 2012, 03:05:38 AM

It's a good idea. But it has been tried before and it failed.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 30, 2012, 10:50:14 AM

Not like this.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 11:26:00 AM

SS, I had that idea to make it a collab from Digital+ members. We would split into several parts, 3 or 4, since it's a hell amount of stunts. I even got some of the oldschool/inactive stunters best stuff.

PM me in case you wanna help, but I intend to go ahead with our project.


E: You could confirm that I had the idea 2 years ago with Beat, when we wanted to pay Rechyy to edit it, or just ask petar where I wanted to confirm something about a Best of GTAs a couple of months ago.

E²: We are doing the SA one

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 30, 2012, 12:01:41 PM

I don't want this to be a Digital+ video, I don't think a video split into parts is a good idea. Because it will become out of date as soon as it's released, and I just think making it a community project is the best/most fair way of doing this. Giving it to an editing crew doesn't make much sense to me. Obviously you can do what you want, but this idea is vastly different to what you're suggesting :P

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 12:11:31 PM

What I said we are doing is my idea, not yours, what makes it specifically for SA engine, not VC/LC; in which you could apply yours :P

I've spoken to a few (2 actually) staff members and they aprooved. I don't see why it would be a bad idea. If it was BT I bet no one would complain about it.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 30, 2012, 12:13:52 PM

I know what you're saying, do it if you want to :P. As far as my help goes though, I just don't like the idea, I think this is a better way of doing it.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 12:16:08 PM

Making it a competition would not be GTAs best of either. But, really, I liked your idea (seriously). It's just something I've been wondering for a long time and I woulnd't like to see it not being done.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 30, 2012, 12:21:22 PM

It's not a competition though, that's just your perception of it. People would vote on the applications, but you don't have to see that competitively. It's just a fair way of deciding what makes it into the videos, and people could keep resubmitting their stuff and see what happens. Anyway though I'm not sure what you're asking me about now :P

If you want my help with making a four part video for Digital+, then I don't want to do that. If you want to use this idea and change it/use it for Digital+, I also don't want to do it, because it should be edited by people decided on by the community in my opinion. So in any case, I don't want your help, but you can do whatever you want :P

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 12:27:06 PM

If it's a best of GTAS and I was a regular/bad stunter I would like to see my best stuff among the great ones stunts, and unfortunately, in the system you suggested, you won't have it.

You have killer stuff in the first and a decreasing level until you reach the final 'chapter'.

Also, my idea is not to split, I'll split it to upload on youtube, but it would be a 1-part video only with less than 10 stunts each as someone suggested here.

I would probably go with Theftman's concept, 1 to 5 stunts each.


Also, as you stated in the first post, you don't wanna get involved with, neither organization or editing. I don't see how you could help out in this. I would just borrow a few very interesting parts of your idea, if you allowed me to.

Quote

    Making one big "Best of GTAStunting" video is a massive undertaking for the whole community, let alone one editor. This makes organisation incredibly difficult, and it also makes the job very stressful for the editor. This leads to de-motivation, and as a result of this, the video never gets made.

As you said, one person and one editor only makes it difficult and hard to release something. That would be a pro to have me and my crew, or any other crew edit it. We are organizing it and we are editing it. Makes it less stressful for everyone.
 

   

Quote

The term "Best of GTAStunting" is very subjective. As an editor you must try to accommodate for your target audience. For this video, that audience is GTAStunting, a large community with lots of different people and opinions to go with it. As a result of this, organisers wrongly try to satisfy everybody, and end up accepting hundreds of different replays. Unless you want an hour long video, this is totally counter-productive, and it works against the objective you're trying to achieve in the first place. Quality over quantity is important, but it's an impossible compromise in this type of environment.

Now again, having a crew to edit it, where most members use different styles, would make it more pleasant to everyone. There will be certainly, atleast, 1 part of which that will be on your taste. Not talking about the stunts themselves, because that's something that everyone would send, but talking about what an editing crew could deliver for the community.


The vol. 1 mentions being less stressful to split into 5-10 stunts each volume. Why not make it bigger, ~3minutes parts video where you can watch any part you want after searching by the name of the stunter? We could make it like:

Part1:
Stevex, Eddeman, Daffy and Caio's part.

Part2: Stunter1, stunter2, stunter3, stunter4

And so on.

You could just 'browse' throught the collection to watch whatever you want to.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 30, 2012, 12:35:13 PM

Quote from: XTO on May 30, 2012, 12:27:06 PM

If it's a best of GTAS and I was a regular/bad stunter I would like to see my best stuff among the great ones stunts, and unfortunately, in the system you suggested, you won't have it.

You have killer stuff in the first and a decreasing level until you reach the final 'chapter'.

Also, my idea is not to split, I'll split it to upload on youtube, but it would be a 1-part video only with less than 10 stunts each as someone suggested here.

I would probably go with Theftman's concept, 1 to 5 stunts each.

The problem with that is that not only do you lose having the most fair way of picking the stunts, but then you lose everything the video is meant to be about. You can't title something "The Best of GTAStunting" and then accept stunts that could never really be classified as "The Best", just because somebody wants to be included. If you don't want that, then you might as well just make a normal collab, because then it's not about having the best stunts.

I think this way is fair, because it allows anyone to apply, but the community decides which stunts are best. I don't see how having a group of organisers is better, because they can and will be exploited. If we're meant to show the best of the community, then it really does have to be the best, or you're compromising the whole purpose. Obviously most people would love to get in the video, and they could all apply, but you can't accept everyone.

And besides, who's to say the level of stunts would decrease? The very nature of volumes and applications means that as new great stunts get landed, they could be sent as an application to these videos. And you can't expect everyone to send everything all at once, it wont happen. And like I said in the topic, if the quality started to drop off significantly, that's when I would discontinue the videos. We can't decide what's the best for other people, they have to decide.

I know I said I don't want to organise it, but I'm reconsidering, because I know I've got the right principles in mind :P

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 12:37:40 PM

It's just obvious that it would decrease.

And I never even mentioned leaving the "stunts pickup job" to anyone who wants. That would be of one person only and they have to meet the same criteria used by Theftman.

Obviously, we could leave away the ones that are not good. But as far as someone is considered a member of the community, let's say, being a member for 2 years, he HAS the right to be in the video, wheter his stuff is good or not, compared to a god-like stunt.


Edit: if the stunts level are a major issue to you, I could use part of your "system" and make a poll or something, but that would not entirely remove a person from a video.

Or maybe pick a replay checker, someone who's a renown stunter in the community to pick the best stunts out of each member.


Edit2: Seems that you are just reconsidering to organize it because someone that had the edit months ago (not to say years, for what I mentioned before) wants it to be different, and disagrees with your plan.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 30, 2012, 12:42:26 PM

If you have one person, they're bound to pick favourites based on their relationships with other people. Nobody can account for that, it's just the wrong way of doing it. It doesn't matter how long somebody has been around, everyone has the right to get in the video, and that's precisely the point. My way of doing things would let everyone apply, no matter who they are. If you have one organiser controlling who gets in and who doesn't, then the whole video loses its credibility in my opinion.

My way would be totally transparent. People would vote on what they consider to be the best, and that's the way it should be, because it's totally subjective. And I know, people could organise votes to try and exploit the system. But the alternative is having one person in control of everything, and that's a guaranteed disaster as far as I'm concerned :hmm:

You do what you want if you organise a video, but it's got nothing to do with my idea, I hope that's clear :P

EDIT: I'm reconsidering organising it because I know I would do it right, even despite how busy I am with other things. I said that long before you posted, the fact that you want to organise a video means nothing to me frankly :P

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 12:45:35 PM

I never said I would pick your idea and apply it. I only mentioned that you picked up some really valid points that would be worth to be used in the organization.


E: Not wanting to start a flame war here, but despite the fact that you'd "remove" people from a community best of by picking the best stuff only, and not the best of the whole community just misses the point.

That's not the way to do it, and you know it.

Yes, I know that it would be up to everyone to pick the stunts, but not considering using everyone's stuff is just a bad idea. You could even pick 20 stunts by MeetMyMeat and make 3 volumes of it.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Determined on May 30, 2012, 12:46:30 PM

I personally dislike the idea of 4 editors carrying out the entire project, it has no variety & gets tiresome to look at.
I've never liked big ass projects done in such a manner, the main reason I hate vids like Extravaganza.
Having variety in both stunts & editing would make the vid stand out more & give everyone a chance to participate in one way or the other.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 12:48:57 PM

It wouldn't be 4 editors, actually. And that's what I meant. In D+ we seek members with different styles from the ones we already have. That provides your variety in editing and the variety of stunts would come from everyone sending stuff, not only 10 guys having stunts.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 30, 2012, 12:49:39 PM

Quote from: XTO on May 30, 2012, 12:45:35 PM

I never said I would pick your idea and apply it. I only mentioned that you picked up some really valid points that would be worth to be used in the organization.


E: Not wanting to start a flame war here, but despite the fact that you'd "remove" people from a community best of by picking the best stuff only, and not the best of the whole community just misses the point.

That's not the way to do it, and you know it.

Yes, I know that it would be up to everyone to pick the stunts, but not considering using everyone's stuff is just a bad idea. You could even pick 20 stunts by MeetMyMeat and make 3 volumes of it.

Well that's okay. You can organise a video if you want, it's not like I want to stop you, I'm not even trying to. But I know the way you're trying to organise it is totally wrong, and frankly I don't see it getting finished either. I'm just trying to tell you why I think that ;)

EDIT: Man, everyone would be considered. How can you guarantee that everyone would be considered if ONE person is organising? :/

EDIT 2: You know what, I've explained myself enough. Everything you've asked me is laid out in the first post and throughout this topic, I don't know how I can be more clear without turning this into an argument. Just leave it, if you want to organise a video do it, I just don't want anything to do with it :cc_detective:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 12:51:20 PM

Because that's the essence of a community video.

Or you want to tell me that 40 guys are removed of a community video (trinity for example) because 5 guys sent 40 stunts that just obliterates the rest of the content?

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Determined on May 30, 2012, 12:52:54 PM

I thought the concept was 1 stunt per person, maybe I misinterpreted something, I don't think we need more than that to still make a good, long best of.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 12:53:42 PM

One per volume.


Let's see:

We have 10k members, being, let's say 200 active on a daily basis.

From 200, we have around 60 stunters in the Crew sections (let's consider that these are best ones around).

If you receive 60 replays + 140 from the rest of the ones, you'd have 1 replay from everyone.

Even though the chances of one of those 140 getting accepted into the best of is low, you'd still have the 60 best stunters around to have their stunts in every volume.

You'd just dominate the whole best of, and not to mention, that you would not even have the old school/retired stunters to be in the video, unless someone else submites their replays (I have a bunch, but I wouldn't do it because I don't even know if they want to).

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 30, 2012, 12:55:25 PM

Quote from: XTO on May 30, 2012, 12:51:20 PM

Because that's the essence of a community video.

Or you want to tell me that 40 guys are removed of a community video (trinity for example) because 5 guys sent 40 stunts that just obliterates the rest of the content?

This is a community video, but one where the community decides which stunts are accepted. A community collaboration video is completely different. If this were a community collab, then every stunt should be accepted that isn't modded/stolen/etc. Then it's up to the editor to make a good video, and you just have to trust them with choosing the stunts that allow them to realise their vision. That's fine, because that type of video is nothing to do with how skilled you are, it's about properly representing the community, across the whole skill range.

A best of needs to be about the BEST. It doesn't get any more simple than that. But at the same time, you need everyone to decide on what's the best, or you just have one organiser deciding FOR people what THEY think is best. It's totally wrong, and that's the last I'm saying about this.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 30, 2012, 12:59:47 PM

As I said, even if you get everyone to be in, you could pick the best of everyone, and not having to remove anyone from the video.


I got your point, and IMO it's wrong.

But seems that this discussion is 2-sided only. No one else is replying, whatsoever, it's not worth to continue with it. My opinion differs from yours and your system is nice in many aspects, but it is really bad conscerning the stunts you are going to use.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Urban Legend on May 30, 2012, 07:54:39 PM

There are like 10 - 15 really good editors.. ones with the most time registered at the boards who can each edit their shit... Guys that are probably active enough to complete this shit.

But lets be honest here. I think we need to define what exactly we think of GTAS best of... or are we working on the 9-10 year anny video for gta stunting? My idea is to show off vice... and US! Show out baby... with some clean ass stunts that have been landed. Regardless of the year, we know it's clean.

It would make sense to include people who are active NOW in this video!!! But truth be told the history of GTAS was made about 5 years ago.. and earlier. The talent from the beginning laid the way for what we strive to accomplish now. You should not be disappointed if absent from such a video have you joined in the past few years. Thats like calling yourself a war veteran in basic training. Yes you are part of the team.. but you weren't there to experience the start.

SS what it sounds like you want is a GTAS Weekly? :lol: Holla bro ;)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on May 31, 2012, 05:50:20 PM

I just think this is the best way to do it, but I want it to be as fair as possible as well :P. I think it gives it enough time to get made if it's monthly, but quickly enough to keep it interesting. I would keep it going until people don't like it any more, or until the quality of the stunts drops. I've laid out my idea so, the admins should pick which they like best IMO, I don't mind which :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on May 31, 2012, 08:15:30 PM

As I said in the first post, 2 staff members aprooved mine when I first suggested. I'll stick to mine and will organize it. Does not mean I'm being a dick towards you, I just have a different concept of this project and I do believe we should do both.

Either way, I can help you out with yours.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: MtS on May 31, 2012, 10:50:00 PM

.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on June 01, 2012, 01:58:17 AM

I agree, but at this point it's out of my hands now. The idea is out there. If people prefer my idea though, I ask that they consider letting me organise it, and edit the first video just to properly show the idea I've got in mind :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Ltab- on June 01, 2012, 07:00:57 AM

You should do a poll, with all the options about this

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on June 01, 2012, 10:20:31 AM

I'll name mine "Best of GTAs.net Community" then.

And why not only Digital+? You said we are not clean editors, who told you that? Maybe you didn't see our recent stuff lols.

Either way, that would be our project and it seems quite fair that we edit it if we put all the effort.

Also, I invited other editors who are not in Digital+, just so you know.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Diaz on June 01, 2012, 10:48:51 AM

If it is the BIGGEST community project, Digital+ could NOT be the only editing crew which edits this. And it's a thing that you invited people, but in my opinion the personality of editors does not depend only on you. Let's give a chance to other editors.

And yes totally supporting this project, and also SS to organise it  :happy:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on June 01, 2012, 10:53:23 AM

I don't have any problems with getting people to pick other editors aswell.


Either way, as I stated in previous posts, my purpose in this project is diffent. Stick to yours, and I'll stick to mine. Just do them both, it's not like that would kill anyone.

I can even give it a different name to ours, since yours is only about skill, not the community itself.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: __JREN on July 28, 2012, 10:42:05 AM

I'm really sorry for being aware of this now. How's the state of it?
I could only read the first post.

I wanted to say that this is a very solid and organized idea and I totally support it :)

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: VaNilla on July 28, 2012, 12:36:30 PM

If anything to do with it is being made, I know nothing about it :P

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Basiµm on July 28, 2012, 02:12:08 PM

Good tips, hope to see this happens.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Xtramus on July 30, 2012, 03:35:53 PM

Apart from how the video is constructed stunt-wise, I think people put way too much emphasis on editing nowadays. If you want to preserve a bit of stunting history than in my opinion editing wouldn't even matter. I'd just want to see the most awesome stunts I've seen over my 'career', the stunts that pushed me to push myself, the once that aspired me to keep trying and the ones that inspired me to try new ideas.

It should be a video to remind us of how stunting has evolved, how we as a community have grown and how stunting has grown throughout the years through those who've aimed higher, looked further or thought differently on the subject of stunting. If this means letting newbs (can't think of a better term) in this video then what of it? If it means only stunts from three years ago, who gives a shit?

For me one of the most inspiring videos was Two Tales by Pep and Nagual, even though they weren't real established VC stunters at the time (or atleast I perceived it that way). Crews like New Breed ushered in a whole new side to stunting, with fresh ideas. TMS, WH, ATS, XSA, GVT, and a lot of other crews out there have been great influences on how stunting is done today. On the other hand we've got stunters who've never been in a major crew that were so influential.

It shouldn't be about the best. It should be about the legacy of stunting. And no matter what your way of setting up this video is you'll never have the whole history or legacy of stunting in this video. There are too many stunters which have paved the way for what stunting is today to remember them.

If anything though, TheGamersAlliance.com should be mentioned in this video for it has hosted thousands of stunting videos over the years and sadly is no longer available.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: A maid on July 30, 2012, 04:29:32 PM

Quote from: Xtramus on July 30, 2012, 03:35:53 PM

Apart from how the video is constructed stunt-wise, I think people put way too much emphasis on editing nowadays. If you want to preserve a bit of stunting history than in my opinion editing wouldn't even matter. I'd just want to see the most awesome stunts I've seen over my 'career', the stunts that pushed me to push myself, the once that aspired me to keep trying and the ones that inspired me to try new ideas.

It should be a video to remind us of how stunting has evolved, how we as a community have grown and how stunting has grown throughout the years through those who've aimed higher, looked further or thought differently on the subject of stunting. If this means letting newbs (can't think of a better term) in this video then what of it? If it means only stunts from three years ago, who gives a shit?

For me one of the most inspiring videos was Two Tales by Pep and Nagual, even though they weren't real established VC stunters at the time (or atleast I perceived it that way). Crews like New Breed ushered in a whole new side to stunting, with fresh ideas. TMS, WH, ATS, XSA, GVT, and a lot of other crews out there have been great influences on how stunting is done today. On the other hand we've got stunters who've never been in a major crew that were so influential.

It shouldn't be about the best. It should be about the legacy of stunting. And no matter what your way of setting up this video is you'll never have the whole history or legacy of stunting in this video. There are too many stunters which have paved the way for what stunting is today to remember them.

If anything though, TheGamersAlliance.com should be mentioned in this video for it has hosted thousands of stunting videos over the years and sadly is no longer available.

You have said what I wanted to for a while but couldn't. Clap clap clap.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Urban Legend on July 30, 2012, 10:24:02 PM

Can someone explain what Xtramus said? I am Merican so therefor I don't comprehend sentences longer than 3 words...jokin

Umm yea...Twos Tale WAS crazy...

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: XTO -- on July 31, 2012, 07:17:04 AM

Quote from: Xtramus on July 30, 2012, 03:35:53 PM

Apart from how the video is constructed stunt-wise, I think people put way too much emphasis on editing nowadays. If you want to preserve a bit of stunting history than in my opinion editing wouldn't even matter. I'd just want to see the most awesome stunts I've seen over my 'career', the stunts that pushed me to push myself, the once that aspired me to keep trying and the ones that inspired me to try new ideas.

It should be a video to remind us of how stunting has evolved, how we as a community have grown and how stunting has grown throughout the years through those who've aimed higher, looked further or thought differently on the subject of stunting. If this means letting newbs (can't think of a better term) in this video then what of it? If it means only stunts from three years ago, who gives a shit?

For me one of the most inspiring videos was Two Tales by Pep and Nagual, even though they weren't real established VC stunters at the time (or atleast I perceived it that way). Crews like New Breed ushered in a whole new side to stunting, with fresh ideas. TMS, WH, ATS, XSA, GVT, and a lot of other crews out there have been great influences on how stunting is done today. On the other hand we've got stunters who've never been in a major crew that were so influential.

It shouldn't be about the best. It should be about the legacy of stunting. And no matter what your way of setting up this video is you'll never have the whole history or legacy of stunting in this video. There are too many stunters which have paved the way for what stunting is today to remember them.

If anything though, TheGamersAlliance.com should be mentioned in this video for it has hosted thousands of stunting videos over the years and sadly is no longer available.

Unfortunately most of the stunters who did something amazing aren't around anymore to send their best to a video like this

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: mehmet on September 02, 2012, 01:10:28 PM

i think this video is a good idea, but! :euro:


there are some stunters like daffy and barney who could make the vid only together... and if there is a limit per stunter then i would not call it ''the best of gtas''

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Blaze on September 02, 2012, 01:52:44 PM

Mixed opinions on this, I mean sure having a best of GTAS would be sick as fuck, but who gets to decide what is 'the best' stunt? One person may love landing a 200ft high bump whereas somebody else may not enjoy that at all, it's all a matter of preference. If anything a best of video would probably split the community; you spend hours, days even trying one stunt repetitively and finally land it, then it's not used in a best of? jimmies will be rustled.

As a bad example, personally my top three all time GTAS videos would be Stunting Liberty by Alexey89, Postmortem by Daffy and Rising by Xtramus. Sure, they may not be the pinnacle of Vice City stunting, but I enjoyed them and would probably consider them the best videos released (IN MY OPINION), whereas other people would probably call me stupid for classing those three as the best. Just a matter of opinion and perception I suppose.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: JL on October 09, 2012, 11:59:54 AM

About the problem that "best" is obviously is subjective; that could be solved by division of an episodal Best of into, lets just say 2 parts, "creativity/combos" & "fuck he's flying"

I have mixed feelings about this aswell. It feels like Best ofs aren't really needed, personal Best ofs being entirely different though.

The "best/greatest" achievments of each year are already brought to attention by the yearly awards GTAS is doing. And it works perfectly fine, since the winners and nominations are determined by the users of this place.
Doing video like this would be doing the same thing twice, kinda.

It's not a bad idea at all, but it doesn't feel neccessary.

/edit!

Instead of doing regular Best ofs, i think we should put more effort in preserving stuntvideos.
Especially old ones.

Actually i think most of the stunters here would rather have people watch the inspiring/achieving/mindblowing stunts they pulled off in the video they were in originally (along with his other stuff), instead of just seeing a glimpse of their work in a Best of.

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Mati on March 29, 2015, 05:51:00 AM

SORRY FOR BUMB


Gimme replay checkers / beta viewers team and I will fully edit this video with all potential. I am pretty sure that I will meet the challenge (I just need to finish one project). My pm box is always open  :happy:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Rusch69 on March 29, 2015, 06:36:40 AM

:neen:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: PK on March 29, 2015, 11:41:32 AM

Quote from: Rusch69 on March 29, 2015, 06:36:40 AM

:neen:

No offense Tracey, but. ^

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: Mati on March 30, 2015, 06:35:01 AM

Quote from: PK on March 29, 2015, 11:41:32 AM

Quote from: Rusch69 on March 29, 2015, 06:36:40 AM

:neen:

No offense Tracey, but. ^

lel its just a suggestion  :mellow:

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: FIGHTER on March 30, 2015, 02:00:25 PM

Quote from: Detective-Tracky on March 30, 2015, 06:35:01 AM

Quote from: PK on March 29, 2015, 11:41:32 AM

Quote from: Rusch69 on March 29, 2015, 06:36:40 AM

:neen:

No offense Tracey, but. ^

lel its just a suggestion  :mellow:

Read Xtramus post above here...

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: PM on March 30, 2015, 09:29:07 PM

Xtramus had the point.
IMO, the only way to construct this video (without missing a single relevant stunt) would be cutting out clips of famous, remembered videos. Lol

If you guys are still dreaming of this project, you should stop it...

Title: Re: The Best of GTAStunting: A New Concept
Post by: PK on April 02, 2015, 03:19:26 AM

Quote from: PM on March 30, 2015, 09:29:07 PM

If you guys are still dreaming of this project, you should stop it...

No, we have dreams too.  <_<